EricNau
Aug 17, 09:51 AM
I think that these tests are poor regardless of the results. Testing is all based on evidence and I see none, just what they say are the results.
When you run a test you normally document the process for the test conditions. You don't just say Photoshop CS2 - MP aware actions, but which ones - why didn't they use the Photoshop test.
"For FCP 5, we rendered a 20 second HD clip we had imported and dropped into a sequence."
Does this mean they imported a 20 second clip into a sequence and had to render the clip before it would play with the rest of the sequence.
They basically used the render tools in the sequence menu. Why measure something like that.
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When you run a test you normally document the process for the test conditions. You don't just say Photoshop CS2 - MP aware actions, but which ones - why didn't they use the Photoshop test.
"For FCP 5, we rendered a 20 second HD clip we had imported and dropped into a sequence."
Does this mean they imported a 20 second clip into a sequence and had to render the clip before it would play with the rest of the sequence.
They basically used the render tools in the sequence menu. Why measure something like that.
Scottsdale
Apr 6, 11:59 AM
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but the Windows numbers don't correspond to OS X numbers.
Are you smoking something? Sure the IGP used in SB 13" MBP might get some fudged numbers by those who report for Apple, but you think the ULV SB IGP is going to even compare to the 320m on any level??? Huh? You are far smarter than that.
A lot of people using the 13" MBP in comparison when there are almost no similaries.
I don't believe a ULV CPU gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe this CPU in the story gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe Apple is dumb enough to ruin the MBA brand AGAIN with Intel's IGP at this time. I don't believe that what Apple does in the 13" MBP has any correlation with the MBA because the IGP is different. I believe when Apple and Nvidia said Apple will use the Nvidia chipset and GPU for a long time they were specifically citing the MBA, as it make no sense for the MBA to be so challenged as to get such an inferior design leading to tragic real world results.
In 2012 the MBA will get an update when it actually makes sense. People waiting for a ULV SB chip in the 13" MBA will be waiting a long time. People waiting or expecting SB IGP to even compare in ULV variants will be waiting forever as they cannot match the Nvidia offering with the underclocked IGP.
This story is ridiculous as written.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but the Windows numbers don't correspond to OS X numbers.
Are you smoking something? Sure the IGP used in SB 13" MBP might get some fudged numbers by those who report for Apple, but you think the ULV SB IGP is going to even compare to the 320m on any level??? Huh? You are far smarter than that.
A lot of people using the 13" MBP in comparison when there are almost no similaries.
I don't believe a ULV CPU gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe this CPU in the story gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe Apple is dumb enough to ruin the MBA brand AGAIN with Intel's IGP at this time. I don't believe that what Apple does in the 13" MBP has any correlation with the MBA because the IGP is different. I believe when Apple and Nvidia said Apple will use the Nvidia chipset and GPU for a long time they were specifically citing the MBA, as it make no sense for the MBA to be so challenged as to get such an inferior design leading to tragic real world results.
In 2012 the MBA will get an update when it actually makes sense. People waiting for a ULV SB chip in the 13" MBA will be waiting a long time. People waiting or expecting SB IGP to even compare in ULV variants will be waiting forever as they cannot match the Nvidia offering with the underclocked IGP.
This story is ridiculous as written.
slackpacker
Apr 10, 06:29 AM
Well I bet they handle Formats differently.
Gone is Pulldown. Gone is Film Support...replaced with the best web movie rendering support in the industry. Also Apple will change the antiquated delivery method for productions. Once your done you publish to the itunes store and you have now distributed your movie. The interface will be a multitrack version of iMovie. From watching this clip and all the industry big wigs saying "its wonderful" Ya its great but in a different way ... because whats going to be released is not FCP studio 4. I'm sure its a whole new thing. So all the iMovie 7 users who had to keep using it because iMovie 8 was a total re-write because of no legacy no pluggin support will happen to FC Editors. This will force Editors who use Studio 3 to continue to use S3 until they build up the features of this "new" editor. Its going to be a very interesting NAB. Avid and Premiere are going to gain a lot of new friends if this is true. But the larger batch of new editors who really could care less about 99% of what this small market needs will be very happy. I also bet the price is quite a bit lower as well.
This will be the everything is gone and changed upgrade.
Gone is Pulldown. Gone is Film Support...replaced with the best web movie rendering support in the industry. Also Apple will change the antiquated delivery method for productions. Once your done you publish to the itunes store and you have now distributed your movie. The interface will be a multitrack version of iMovie. From watching this clip and all the industry big wigs saying "its wonderful" Ya its great but in a different way ... because whats going to be released is not FCP studio 4. I'm sure its a whole new thing. So all the iMovie 7 users who had to keep using it because iMovie 8 was a total re-write because of no legacy no pluggin support will happen to FC Editors. This will force Editors who use Studio 3 to continue to use S3 until they build up the features of this "new" editor. Its going to be a very interesting NAB. Avid and Premiere are going to gain a lot of new friends if this is true. But the larger batch of new editors who really could care less about 99% of what this small market needs will be very happy. I also bet the price is quite a bit lower as well.
This will be the everything is gone and changed upgrade.
PeterQVenkman
Apr 27, 09:06 AM
Because they hoped people will grow up and educate themselfs. That never happened obviously.
Obviously. ;)
Obviously. ;)
noire anqa
Mar 26, 07:22 AM
I use my computer as a "real computer" and I like virtually every change I've seen. I wish people wouldn't generalize so broadly and presume that because certain additions aren't something that they use that it has nothing to do with "real work."
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thunng8
Apr 9, 05:13 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
But in the case of the Sb quad core the figure seems to be in excess of 50%, not 20%
CPU isnt the only component drawing power. AMD 6750M has higher TDP compared to 330M as well
I have already mentioned that the 40w difference measured was when it was running cinebench which does not tax the gpu at all. Gpu tdp should not be a big factor.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
But in the case of the Sb quad core the figure seems to be in excess of 50%, not 20%
CPU isnt the only component drawing power. AMD 6750M has higher TDP compared to 330M as well
I have already mentioned that the 40w difference measured was when it was running cinebench which does not tax the gpu at all. Gpu tdp should not be a big factor.
danz1123
Jun 11, 11:21 AM
Anyone know if I place a preorder on the 19th what the chances are I'll be able to make a reservation for the 24th?
sam8940
Apr 6, 03:57 PM
what about the hacked nooks?
tortoise
Aug 7, 09:14 PM
Lots of ways it COULD be implemented. Looks at Suns new file system ZFS. It is basically "Copy on Write". With a file system you can do things even fancier then with a DBMS. For example a "block" (i-node) exists physicaly on the disk only once but it could be maped into any numbr of files. If a file in only an orderd set of block numbers then to copy a copy all you need to copy is the set of numbers which is on the order of 1000 times shorter then the data itself.
Ahem, a modern relational database system can do everything a file system can. In fact, they are both databases, but optimized for different tasks and slightly different semantics. The same behaviors can be achieved with both; it is a matter of design bias, not capability. File systems like ZFS actually converge on normal MVCC database behavior, which durably journals all writes but with more flexibility with respect to atomicity and version cleanup than a file system. File system semantics, even versioning ones, are more primitive and less capable than database ones, but with substantially increased performance over what would be possible from an MVCC database for the same task.
Same theory, different optimizations. The balancing act has always been between the power fully ACID-compliant MVCC semantics and the basic speed of simple file system semantics. Apple and Sun are burning some excess performance capacity to deliver features that are closer to the database ideal.
Ahem, a modern relational database system can do everything a file system can. In fact, they are both databases, but optimized for different tasks and slightly different semantics. The same behaviors can be achieved with both; it is a matter of design bias, not capability. File systems like ZFS actually converge on normal MVCC database behavior, which durably journals all writes but with more flexibility with respect to atomicity and version cleanup than a file system. File system semantics, even versioning ones, are more primitive and less capable than database ones, but with substantially increased performance over what would be possible from an MVCC database for the same task.
Same theory, different optimizations. The balancing act has always been between the power fully ACID-compliant MVCC semantics and the basic speed of simple file system semantics. Apple and Sun are burning some excess performance capacity to deliver features that are closer to the database ideal.
hulugu
Mar 22, 01:02 AM
This makes me want to go have lunch at the Cafe My Lai.
Oh wow, I didn't catch that until now.
Oh wow, I didn't catch that until now.
srf4real
Aug 25, 10:01 PM
I hope Apple doesn't go the way of every other corporation that gets huge and loses sight of the bread and butter- customer base. In a world full of computers, I want to be helped by a human with common sense. Apple support has always been good to me, although I haven't needed a thing since buying my G4 mini last summer and signing up a dotmac account. (just to end on a positive note:)
maelstromr
Apr 25, 02:55 PM
Where did I say Apple is exploiting me?:confused:
Apple did a shoddy programming job by not encrypting the data. Thaty is why Apple is under pressure by the various govenments and rightfully so. Nobody says Apple is using this data in a malicious way. (aside of this lawsuit but that is only here in the USA and stupid and greed driven by lawyers and totally besides the real issue)
Maybe next time read the post you are responding to - rather negatively to boot. The post I quoted discussed Apple exploiting people.
Apple did a shoddy programming job by not encrypting the data. Thaty is why Apple is under pressure by the various govenments and rightfully so. Nobody says Apple is using this data in a malicious way. (aside of this lawsuit but that is only here in the USA and stupid and greed driven by lawyers and totally besides the real issue)
Maybe next time read the post you are responding to - rather negatively to boot. The post I quoted discussed Apple exploiting people.
vincenz
Mar 26, 07:34 AM
Summer can't come soon enough!
leekohler
Apr 28, 09:58 AM
You accuse every 'liberal' in this forum of being blinded by their bias. I suppose all of the 'conservatives' see clearly and are willing to consider all reasonable alternatives. Lol. And then the debate becomes what is reasonable? :p
If he can't stand the heat, he knows where the kitchen door is.
If he can't stand the heat, he knows where the kitchen door is.
dernhelm
Jul 27, 10:27 AM
Rule 1 of Apple Events:
You never get all the marbles.
Perfect description.
...But all I want is an iMac upgrade to Core 2 Duo and I'll be happy.
You never get all the marbles.
Perfect description.
...But all I want is an iMac upgrade to Core 2 Duo and I'll be happy.
FreeState
Mar 4, 04:41 PM
Logic is my source. Society needs people, no people means no society. If there were no more babies society would eventually collapse.
About as logical as "Concerned" Women of America. Somehow you start recognizing gay families rights under the government and men will lose all interest in women, even at the alter!
(Unfortunately this is an actual screen grab of their website from today - they are not homophobic at all, really...)
About as logical as "Concerned" Women of America. Somehow you start recognizing gay families rights under the government and men will lose all interest in women, even at the alter!
(Unfortunately this is an actual screen grab of their website from today - they are not homophobic at all, really...)
arkitect
Apr 27, 12:02 PM
I'm not a birther. But I would love to know why the certificate looks new when the president is nearly 50. Now I'm about five months older than he, my original birth certificate has faded. The certificate he produced clearly isn't the original. Or if it is the original, it's astoundingly well-preserved.
:rolleyes:
If you'd care to read the stamp at the bottom of the document.
It is a true copy of the record on file in the Hawaiian State Department of Health. Dated 25 April 2011.
I doubt they leave their records lying about to get faded and illegible so of course a scanned copy is going to look pretty good.
Not that I'd take you as a birther, of course…
Link to a download copy (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/longformbirthcertificate.pdf)
:rolleyes:
If you'd care to read the stamp at the bottom of the document.
It is a true copy of the record on file in the Hawaiian State Department of Health. Dated 25 April 2011.
I doubt they leave their records lying about to get faded and illegible so of course a scanned copy is going to look pretty good.
Not that I'd take you as a birther, of course…
Link to a download copy (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/longformbirthcertificate.pdf)
Gugulino
Apr 6, 01:00 PM
The quality of a blu ray film is superior to all forms of digital distribution over the internet, like iTunes for example and it is a huge improvement over DVD. I can't understand why people still stick with DVD. Like Apple! Macs have no blu ray disc tray, only DVD. I can not understand that!
When you have all these great HD Camcorders and great movie editing software on a Mac why you should burn a DVD and loose most of the quality. Sure, you can upload HD movies to YouTube or Vimeo directly from iMovie, but it is not the same quality as, if you would burn a blu ray. At least the Mac Pro should have an option for a blu ray disc tray and DVD Studio Pro should support blu ray authoring.
I hope Apple will do a step in this direction with the new FC Studio.
When you have all these great HD Camcorders and great movie editing software on a Mac why you should burn a DVD and loose most of the quality. Sure, you can upload HD movies to YouTube or Vimeo directly from iMovie, but it is not the same quality as, if you would burn a blu ray. At least the Mac Pro should have an option for a blu ray disc tray and DVD Studio Pro should support blu ray authoring.
I hope Apple will do a step in this direction with the new FC Studio.
ergle2
Sep 19, 12:56 PM
thx for your reply,
i will go for the mac pro quad know (i'm updating my home computer wich is a G3, but i'm used to work on a dual G5 for my projects) and yeah i will allways be able then to update later, but how about ram, when DDR3 comes out, i read that its going to replace FB-DIMMs so will that be upgradeble too???
cause these FB-DIMMS are so ********** expensive :) thx
DDR and FB aren't mutually exclusive technologies. Current FB-DIMMs use DDR2 chips. Newer FB-DIMMs will use DDR3 chips but due to the way FB-DIMMs work -- the buffer and control hardware essentially sit between the memory and the MCH -- you should still be able to use them in a Mac Pro. Note, should, not will.
You won't be able to use regular DDR3 DIMMs just like you can't use regular DDR2 DIMMs tho'. That's something that'd require a major design change to the motherboard.
So, memory will still be damn' expensive compared to that found in the cheap desktops...
i will go for the mac pro quad know (i'm updating my home computer wich is a G3, but i'm used to work on a dual G5 for my projects) and yeah i will allways be able then to update later, but how about ram, when DDR3 comes out, i read that its going to replace FB-DIMMs so will that be upgradeble too???
cause these FB-DIMMS are so ********** expensive :) thx
DDR and FB aren't mutually exclusive technologies. Current FB-DIMMs use DDR2 chips. Newer FB-DIMMs will use DDR3 chips but due to the way FB-DIMMs work -- the buffer and control hardware essentially sit between the memory and the MCH -- you should still be able to use them in a Mac Pro. Note, should, not will.
You won't be able to use regular DDR3 DIMMs just like you can't use regular DDR2 DIMMs tho'. That's something that'd require a major design change to the motherboard.
So, memory will still be damn' expensive compared to that found in the cheap desktops...
jackc
Aug 7, 04:15 PM
Time Machine looks pretty sweet. How do you think it will work in terms of space requirements?
gibbz
Apr 27, 08:20 AM
Wow. That's surprising. This whole time people downplayed it because there was no evidence that apple was actually transmitting this data. It wasn't a big deal because the db file was local only. Now when Apple addresses it they had to not only admit that the file exists but that they actually were transmitting data.
Ah well, still not a big deal. :p
It is not surprising (http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf) (pdf).
Ah well, still not a big deal. :p
It is not surprising (http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf) (pdf).
tumblebird
Nov 28, 11:30 PM
That Doug Morris is a slimeball. Who's to say I even own any Universal music. I listen to Indie, primarily. I buy all my music, most of it on CD which I digitize, or via the iTunes Music Store. Who is Universal to demand my dollar? Or three for that matter, one for each iPod I have purchased. There are a lot of labels out there. They can't all get a portion. Apple owes them NOTHING. Did they get music from Sony for the Walkman? How many of us listened to mix tapes from friends on those? I know that most of my tapes were mixes from records and CDs. Universal is off base and greedy. Don't let this happen, Mr. Steve Jobs! You're in the right.
Kevin Monahan
Apr 5, 06:20 PM
At present we have to re-encode a lot of our footage (7D / Minicam etc), and you don't need to do that in Premiere, it just plays on the timeline - however editing in that is quite frankly an exercise in sheer frustration and strange bugs.
I don't find it frustrating, in fact, it runs circles around FCP and I worked at Apple on 2 versions of the software, wrote a book and founded the first FCPUG.
As for strange bugs, please let me know what they are. Our users aren't complaining about anything strange.
If you do find something, please report it: Submit bugs to http://www.adobe.com/go/wish . More on how to give feedback: http://bit.ly/93d6NF
Best,
Kevin
I don't find it frustrating, in fact, it runs circles around FCP and I worked at Apple on 2 versions of the software, wrote a book and founded the first FCPUG.
As for strange bugs, please let me know what they are. Our users aren't complaining about anything strange.
If you do find something, please report it: Submit bugs to http://www.adobe.com/go/wish . More on how to give feedback: http://bit.ly/93d6NF
Best,
Kevin
ClimbingTheLog
Jul 20, 01:04 PM
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kentsfield will not be appearing in any of the Pro machines for some time.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
Apple doesn't get to operate in a bubble anymore - in Intel Land you have to compete. If they executed your plan, Dell would just go and make a "workstation" with dual Kentsfield and Apple will get crushed in Photoshop benchmarks. No way they're going to allow that.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
Apple doesn't get to operate in a bubble anymore - in Intel Land you have to compete. If they executed your plan, Dell would just go and make a "workstation" with dual Kentsfield and Apple will get crushed in Photoshop benchmarks. No way they're going to allow that.
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